>> did ted cruz say this was obama care? >> do you think obama care is a big enough threat to this country you need to shut down the government? >> an inexcusable mess. >> own it. don't fart and point at the dog. >> john boehner's crew increasingly does not want to be saved. >> what a train wreck. >> what happens at midnight on october the 16th. >> the timmy titanics are screaming iceberg again. >> insane, catastrophic, chaos. >> all this talk about obama default has been a lot of demagoguery. >> warren buffett likened the fault to a nuclear bomb. >> tragedy plus time equals comedy. >> we should cut this credit card up. actually, i think i'll just tear it up. >> we've got another nine days before the tragedy. so it's still hilarious. ♪ it's the bottom of the ninth day of the government shutdown. and with the nation edging

closer by the day to a first-ever default, the president is summoning lawmakers to try and break through the deadlock. all house democrats have been invited to 1600 pennsylvania avenue to meet with the president this hour. and tomorrow the president invited all 232 house republicans to follow suit. 18 of them are actually planning to show up. a small group of leaders and committee chairman, hand-picked by the speaker. the white house moments ago issued a statement saying they are disappointed that all would not attend and earlier today in what passes for bipartisanship during these dark days in washington, house republican leaders boehner and cantor met with their democratic counterparts, pelosi and hoyer. unfortunately, to listen to speaker boehner, he spent the last nine days distilling his talking points on the president's health care law. >> what a train wreck. we need to sit down and have a conversation about the big challenges that face our country. >> see, on that point, everybody agrees. it's just a question of when you have that conversation.

is it after the hostage-takers drive us off a cliff with dynamite strapped to the bus, or should we maybe stop the bus first, dismantle the explosive, let the hostages off and then have that chat? majority leader harry reid said if they could just cut the engines and listen, republicans could walk away with a win. >> the speaker and my republican friends should take yes for an answer. open the government, let us pay our bills. we'll negotiate on anything you want to negotiate on. >> and with anxiety building over a critical borrowing deadline, just eight days away, the president is looking to offer stability where he can. today nominating janet yellen to succeed fed chairman ben bernanke at the end of january. >> she is a proven leader. and she's tough. not just because she is from brooklyn. she calls it like she sees it. johnet also knows how to build consensus. she listens to competing views. and brings people together around a common goal. and is one of her admirers says, she is the kind of person who

makes everybody around her better. >> despite that, the gop is already offering opposition. with the senate's number two republican saying yellin has a, quote, stimulus obsession. all right, let's get right to nbc's kristen welker at the white house. so kristen, janet yellen would obviously be the first woman ever to lead the fed, an historic figure should she get the job. she is described as a consensus builder. given what you heard me reed from john cornyn in the senate, does the white house expect a fight on yellin? >> well, i think there will be a fight, like everything in this town, joy, certainly. i wouldn't be surprised to see that and as you pointed out, john cornyn is gearing up for that. having said that, i also think the white house expects she will ultimately be confirmed. this is someone who has broad support amongst democrats. and also sort of a bipartisan support from the sense that a lot of people believe she is highly qualified. she is a 67-year-old woman who has more than a decade of

leadership experience in the fed. she is, of course, the number two at the fed right now. so no one really questions her readiness. and in terms of the market reaction today, the markets responded positively. she is someone who is well-known to the markets. and it is expected in terms of her policy she'll probably sort of continue what we have seen from ber naenk in terms of keeping interest rates low and also continuing with that bond-buying program, the biggest question might be when she would scale back that bond-buying program. so this is someone who does have broad support amongst democrats and who is widely believed to be someone with good credentials to bring to such a position. but, of course, i do anticipate there will be a robust debate. but ultimately, i think show she'll get confirmed and she is not as controversial as the person president obama was thinking about picking prior to this, lorne summers, some thought his policies were too conservative and also thought his comments were controversial.

>> i want to swing back over to shutdown politics for a minute, kristen. we have these meetings that the president is having with democrats, with the sort of full rank of democrats and just 18 republicans tomorrow. what do we expect to come out of those meetings? >> well, it's always difficult to know if anything is going to actually come out of these meetings. of course, today, president obama will be meeting with house democrats and i anticipate one of the goals of this meeting will be to make sure everyone is on the same page. yesterday you heard president obama signalling that a potential offer could come in the form of a short-term fix, a short-term raise of the debt limit and government spending bill. so potentially to make sure that everyone is on the same page with that. but as you said, joy, at the top of the hour, tomorrow only 18 republicans will be coming to meet with president obama. the speaker's office says that is to try to negotiate, to try to move this process forward. will that actually happen? big question mark. i have been here this white house for several years now, and these meetings usually don't yield a whole lot of results. i think for the sake of the

american people, a lot of folks are going to be hoping that the outcome is different this time around. but at least it is a sign, i think, the optics, for everybody that they are talking to each other. but the government shutdown and stalemate continues. joy? >> all right, nbc's kristen welker, thank you. and i want to bring in now our panel and with us from washington is political strategist, angela rye. the national review's robert costa from capitol hill and here in new york, msnbc political analyst, jonathan altar. and jonathan, you attended a white house meeting with conservative journalist, charles kraut hammer. sadly, no breitbart.com people invited. but tell me what you talked about and what you think came out of the meeting. >> i can't talk about the content of the meeting, it was off the record but what i am seeing at the capitol today, is a growing consensus on the republican side that seemed to meet the president midway, open to a short term solution at his press conference. it seems like republicans today at the capitol are moving in that direction, though they're doing it quietly.

>> but you said a consensus to meet the president halfway. is that the temperature on the hill right now, that rank and file republicans want to come to a deal and end the government shutdown somehow before we hit the debt limit? >> you're right. it does sound surprising. not so much that they're ready to strike a deal with the white house and senate democrats. but as the debt limit deadline approaches, they're very wary of being blamed for default. so they're looking perhaps at a six-week extension of the debt limit. >> so a six-week extension of the debt limit s. that something that john boehner in your view could bring to the floor without a rebellion among the tea party republicans? >> it's going to be very difficult because speaker boehner's grip has always been fragile since the beginning of the year. so what he's going to have to do if he can't get spending cuts attached, what does he do, bring it to the floor clean and hope for the best? probably not. he's going to need some kind of concession, promise of future talks. that's why paul ryan's op-ed today in the "wall street journal" is an important mark of where the leadership is going. not going to get a concession now but want future fiscal talk as a way to woo conservatives to

the center. >> angela, i want to go to you to the same question. among democrats, the entire democratic caucus meeting with the white house. what is your sense of what democrats would be willing to do to end this standoff? would they be willing to give a fig leaf to john boehner, or are democrats going to hang together and say no talks, no nothing until you reopen the government? >> joy, i think that the democrats have given enough. i know toure just recently did a whole rant on this. and this is about trying to make it seem like both parties are to blame here. and they just honestly are not. the democrats conceded when they allowed this new number, this sequestered number, to be the budget line item here. so to attach a ryder, a policy rider like obama care, to the shutdown measure and then to perhaps even have to do something like that a debt limit vote is very, very dangerous politics. we're now at a point where the american people are being held hostage by our politics. this is very, very dangerous and

i don't think the democrats can concede anything else. i think the six-week extension alone is dangerous enough. and just about as far as the buck can be pushed here. >> well, so january than altar, you have heard the two sides. there is a sense that republicans are now concerned. there is genuine concern they are losing this argument on the national -- they want some kind of fig leaf for john boehner so members feel like they have gotten something. but democrats seem to be -- have the strong hand here and say absolutely not, we have given enough. where does the white house fall in that spectrum, based on your reporting, does the white house fall more on the democrat, no compromise side or the side of saying give boehner a fig leaf? give him a way out? >> you know, the white house's position here is that they do not want the to set a precedent for once more allowing one party -- it could be the democrats in the future, to put a gun to the head of the american economy. and say if you don't do x, i'll shoot. so anything that they can do to kind of step back from that, they're open to.

if it's a fig leaf, fine. but that fig leaf cannot be some agreement. it could be a delay of six weeks, kick the can down the road another six weeks with the understanding that as the president said yesterday, there will be serious talks on a variety of issues. >> after. >> after. including obama care. you can talk about anything. after. after the gun is taken away from the head of the american economy and the american people and it should be said, the constitution. >> and the -- >> we don't have a minority of a minority rules in this country. we're supposed to have majority rule. >> right. >> we had an election about this. so if the democrats were to give in at this point, it would be setting a precedent that nothing is settled in this country. there is no such thing as a democratic outcome. everything is just, you know, a potential ransom note. >> and so robert, do conservatives in the house understand that? do they understand that in a

democracy, you can't have a minority of minority ruling. you've got polls showing 5%, republicans taking the brunt of the blame, and it's getting worse, each poll shows more people blaming republicans. you now have paul ryan seeming to walk away from the obama care part of the demand. the op-ed he wrote was strictly back on the comfortable ground of fiscal matters. do republicans in the house understand that they are not going to be able to ransom the affordable care act to implement those changes, because it's undemocratic? do they get that? >> it's a great question, joy. and i think when you look at what republicans are doing, incrementally, they're moving water down their demands. publicly, they're still keeping up this rally cry to repeal or defund obama care. but right now, with paul ryan's op-ed and other behind the scenes maneuvers, they're watering down what they're asking for. now there's just about fiscal talks, rather than a grand demand hearding obama care. >> but robert, do you get the sense that people in the house are mad at paul ryan for dropping the affordable care act piece of the demand or they're secretly relieved he's moving it there?

>> i think some are secretly relieved. and the good -- the way paul ryan is handling this is he's being an ally of leadership without being an official member of leadership. so he's able to move the conversation away from obama care and bring conservatives along because he has strong political capital on the right and that's important for boehner who sometimes has a trust gap with his own right flank. >> just on this point, very quickly. i have learned last year that they did a survey, frank lunts did a survey of who the house freshman look to when they came on to the house floor, looked up on the board, score board, of how a member voted. it wasn't the leadership. it was paul ryan. he had the most prestige of anybody among those radical house freshmen. so this op-ed piece is a very important moment. and it does represent, as robert indicated, a kind of step back. and i think you will see us move -- >> walking back. >> towards some kind of a deal. >> and very quickly exit question to you, angela, should the white house be negotiating with paul ryan instead of boehner? >> no, thank god.

they've got to work within the confines of leadership. but boehner also has to lead. he cannot allow -- you've talked a lot today about minority of minority. he can't allow them to continue to throw temper tantrums to get what they want. he's got to rule, he's got to lead. and we've got to move this agenda forward. we cannot continue with these shutdown politics. there are people not working and economies suffering because of it. >> all right. angela rye, robert costa and jonathan altar. thanks to you. the president is about to meet with house democrats. we'll talk to a member of congress on her way to the white house. stay with us.

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this is why we need to sit down and have a conversation. >> house republicans asked to simply have a conversation. >> are is to have even a conversation with the speaker of the house. >> that's still the language coming from the speaker and his troops today. they want to have a conversation about the shutdown, which is odd, because this has been a day of nothing but conversations. the speaker and eric cantor actually had one with their democratic counterparts before boehner huffed and puffed this afternoon about the need for a sitdown. that comes on the same day the secretary of veterans' affairs and a house committee had a very important conversation about veterans denied benefits because of the shutdown. and we'll have more on that later in the show. and, of course, there's also the latest conversation voters are trying to have with republicans, telling them this time in no uncertain terms that, a., congress is unpopular, because. b, gop induced shutdowns are extremely unpopular. you want a conversation, mr. speaker? they're everywhere. your side just isn't listening.

and joining us now is democratic congresswoman louise slaughter of new york. thanks so much for joining us. >> it's a pleasure, joy. i love being here. i think i've got a bit of news for you. i'm not sure. >> please do. break some news. >> paul ryan has come out with a statement that he did not in any way mean to outdo that obama care. that is still his intention to repeal it. >> wow. so that means he is walking back the small bit of sanity we were crediting him for. >> within a few hours, yes. >> well, on a brighter note, you heard the white house and other democratic leaders are going to talk with president obama. the gop only 18 are going to show up and do the same thing tomorrow. give me a sense of what you plan to say to the president. >> well, my fervent hope, and i've been in huddles all day with colleagues, is that we will stand firm. the idea of sitting down and having a conversation with the president -- boehner had one yesterday, i understand. the continuing resolution, which is supposed to keep the

government open, was agreed on by both congressman boehner and senator reid, with a number that boehner contingent really wanted to have, which democrats, frankly, think is not enough money to run the government. but we agreed to that number to get it done. congressman boehner simply can't get it done. he is not able to get his caucus to vote for it. i would like to talk about one aspect of it, if i may. >> sure. >> would it be okay to talk about health care? >> absolutely. >> i've been carrying a bill in the house now for four or five terms, trying to save antibiotics for persons, for human beings. 80% of the antibiotics in this country are fed to livestock every single day and it's creating a terrible problem of resistant bacteria. there is an outbreak going on right now, salmonella heidelberg, 47% of the people sick are hospitalized. twice as many normally hospitalized. 13% of them have accept

sepsemia, a blood infection and we hope it will be possible to contain it with the antibiotics we have now. we could have gotten a much stronger lead on this, and perhaps saveded people some of this anguish if the pulse net, which is run by cdc, had been able to operate a network of health care facilities that keep track all over the united states of what's happening. it had to be shut down. because of the government shutdown. it is an emergency of major magnitude. the other issue, obviously, is the overuse of antibiotics, one of the best medical breakthroughs ever in the history of persons. but right now we have a lot of sick people and whether we're going to be able to get the information we need and the ability to treat them is in doubt of the. >> and, you know, congresswoman, you bring up a great point, because of the real-world consequences we're seeing of this shutdown. there is a lot of talk coming from your colleagues on the other side as if these things are shock.

as if they were just something out of the blue. but there were warnings that bad things like this, like what you just described, could happen, including on this issue of veterans benefits. it's not as if this was a surprise. you had the inspector general, of the pentagon, tell congress that this could happen. do you have a sense that your colleagues are just not being honest about pretending not to know these consequences? >> you know, i don't think they had any idea what they were doing. i seriously don't. they -- they seem to be totally surprised that things were shut down. which would be the first thing you would think a government shuts down, the government shuts down. but, you know how they carried on over the monument that the veterans wanted to see. but what is really the most devastating thing is that they try piecemeal. they're trying to put back a government they want. now, all of the veterans, most of the veterans' agencies really repudiated them the other day when they decided to open a little piece of the va and said we've got many more problems than one you're addressing here.

we've got to open the whole government. and we really have got to fund the whole government, as well. we're not only causing grievous harm in this country, but we're making ourselves look really like a -- third world country or worse in the eyes of the world. >> yeah. >> and that hurts us, as well. >> absolutely. and congresswoman, it's a great point that people really don't know what the government does or is until you lose the whole thing. and watching your colleagues on the other side try to put back the pieces that they think are popular is actually really dismaying. all right. thank you so much, congresswoman louise slaughter. >> thank you. and coming up, it ain't just another river in egypt. gop denial starts in today's top lines. >> what is the true sense on the inside? are you united or not? >> the truth is, don't believe everything you read on the internet. ♪ i don't mind to spend some time ♪

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5%. 5%. that's the new low congress hit in an approval poll today. of course, we all know that discuss in part politicians do one thing and say another. we stopped to honor a group of lawmakers who, out of this do-nothing congress did something meaningful and symbolic. as their republican colleagues whistled past the graveyard amid a government shutdown, eight democratic lawmakers of congress rallied and were ultimately arrested outside the capitol for cause they believe in. a cause they refused to let die. comprehensive immigration reform. and those are congressional mug shots that we choose to celebrate. the day's top lines are coming up. step one. pick a user name. step two, pick a security question. step three, become completely confused. >> lots of people complaining because they have to go through the lengthy process of filling out the profiles. you have to answer three questions.

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>> take a look at the congressional approval rating right now. it's at 5%. >> actually, i think i'll tear it up. >> unfortunately, spainer boehner has reversed himself. i don't know why. >> they had a deal, but obama care! >> it reminds me of a jack lemon character, a nervous business guy. >> had it rough the last few weeks. >> who has done something wrong, his business is in shambles and looks like hell. >> i didn't come to shut down government. we don't want the government to shut down. >> do you think obama care is a big enough threat to this country that you need to shut down the government over it? own it. don't fart and point at the dog. >> republicans own this shutdown. >> is the government going to stay shutdown until we reach the debt limit? >> you hear on every newscast if we don't raise the debt ceiling we will default on our debt. >> there is no reason for us to default. >> we won't. >> all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery. >> what he is saying there is that it is false demagoguery.

this is increasingly becoming the new republican normal. denialism about the consequences of breaching the debt ceiling? >> i just wanted you to respond to melody. >> yeah. i would say no. >> do you think the denialists have a point? >> the denialists, man. they kept saying they believe in nothing. >> or do you think that a breach of the debt ceiling would be catastrophic? >> this is reckless. >> we all really enjoy that. let's get right to our panel and joining us now, krystal ball. and jonathan capehart. i am fascinated in a lot of ways. the extent, krystal, could which they can hang on to a delusion is remarkable. and up until now what you have seen is republicans insisting they can get rid of the affordable care act, law of the land, but they can get rid of it by shutting down the government. now that that hasn't happened, they're still not backing down. why? >> it's unbelievable. and it's hard to fathom. i think the person who was the most honest about this was that

congressman marlin stutzman who said we don't -- basically, and i'm paraphrasing here, it's about respect. we have to get something or we lose face. and that's the whole problem here. we cannot give them anything, because that's what this is all about. we can't continue to have this cycle of crisis after crisis after crisis. so even if we give them some token fig leaf to clutch, then they're going to go back to the well next time, thinking that they can get a bigger fig leaf. that's what we keep seeing. >> no, and actually, jonathan, what's interesting, too, you have sort of the paul ryan wing of the party, supposedly more pragmatic leadership wing of the party, he comes out and does this op-ed where he tries to pivot away from this obsession of the affordable care act and say let's get back on the firm ground of fiscal discipline and then as congresswoman slauder mentioned, he had to take it back. they made him take it back. >> it just shows the power of that minority within the minority of the majority in the house. minority meaning they don't have the senate or the white house. they still have control.

obama care is not going anywhere. the affordable care act is not going anywhere. and yet we are talking about people from, as we have talked, all the time, they are from super safe districts, and they were sent to washington by people who want them to do exactly what's happening right now in washington. >> but what's interesting, they're from super safe districts. we can concede that. but do you have about 23 to 25, that public policy poll, krystal, that came out that showed there are vulnerable republicans. and at what point does their self interest kick in? the polls are showing there are people in places like ohio and california, districts that are still red, but barely red, who are endangered by this. when do they stand up and say enough is enough? >> the problem all along has been that it's not those folks who are in districts that are even remotely turnable. they are not the issue here. except in that they are, as you're pointing out, they're being quiet. a few of them have come out and said they would vote for a clean cr if it were brought to the floor. but they're not willing to sign on to a discharge petition.

at least none that i've heard from yet. they're not willing to really force leadership's hand on this issue. and so it ends up being those 30, 40, however many tea party members at the far extreme who are driving not just their party, but the policy of the entire country. and the future economic well-being of the entire country at this point. i have to say, going back to the congressman, paul ryan op-ed, he must have been pretty surprised to find out he is no longer conservative enough. >> right. >> for this party. talk about a litmus test. this is insane. >> their last vice presidential nominally and now his word. >> i want to read you something quickly, your colleague ej dionne wrote. he wrote, what the tea party and boehner did not reckon, obama and the democrats are done being intimidated by extra constitutional means to extort concessions that the right cannot win through normal legislative electoral methods. and that's the key. these are things they can't get through elections. they're trying to force them through this process. >> no.

absolutely right. ej is absolutely right. and what they didn't bank on was that the president would be firm. and, you know what, as i wrote last week or i can't even remember anymore, earlier this week, where you know, this -- republican member of congress said that the president has been moving down in the right direction. well, of course, he would say this. because in previous battles, the president has given concessions to the point where democrats, their heads explode. so, of course, they all thought, oh, well, they're just going to go after the -- the president will cave this time. >> right. >> but ever since the 2011 debt ceiling crises, the president, everyone in the administration, looked into the abyss and decided, you know what, that's it. we're not doing in this anymore. anyone who didn't see this coming was blind. >> and i think jonathan is right. the calculus has changed. these guys are serious, they really would cause a default and i have to do what's in the best interest of the country here.

now i think that calculus has shifted where he sees that giving them a little bit on this debt ceiling is not going to lead to a better outcome. it's just going to lead to more hostage taking in the future. so he's serious. >> well, if the president has said enough is enough, if only john boehner would get the same idea. jonathan capehart, krystal ball, thank you both. and coming up you, senator barbara boxer joins us. but first governor chris christie met with mitch mcconnell in washington. and while we know he's running for governor, is he also running for president? as he might say, that's none of your damn business! >> governor, it doesn't bother me that you're running for president. what bothers me is how you're running for president. >> i can walk and chew gum at the same time, christine. i can do this job and also deal with my future. and that's exactly what i will do. ♪ [ male announcer ] this is claira.

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it's the most shameful and embarrassing consequence of the government shutdown. 26 united states service members have died or been killed since the start of the shutdown, and their families have not received the death benefits they're entitled to under the law. this payment also known as a death gratuity, an unfortunate way to describe the least we can do for people who sacrifice their lives for this country, is provided for families to cover expenses such as travel to dover air force base in delaware to received their loved one's body and the cost of memorial services and burial. and while the house voted this afternoon to restore this benefit, the thing is, it's not like they didn't know it was coming. here is pentagon comptroller, robert hail, at a briefing last month, discussing how a government shutdown would impact the military. >> we would also be required to do some other bad things to our people, just some examples, we couldn't immediately pay death gratuities to those who die he on active duty.

>> and for more, i'm joined by senator barbara boxer, democrat from california. and senator, i want to ask you about this consequence. this latest consequence that's getting so much attention from the media. it's obviously an embarrassing, shameful moment. senator reid, senator mccain put it yesterday. but these weren't consequences that were unintended. your colleagues knew about this. am i right? >> yes. yes, you're right, joy. and, by the way, it's just great to be with you. i just want to say this. our colleagues were warned. not only about this, but about everything that's been happening. and instead, they decided to shut down this government because they don't like a law that was passed almost four years ago. and that's the affordable care act. so they shut down the government, they were warned about this just as we're warning them now about a default. and i pray to god -- and i say this really knowing what i'm saying. that they understand that they didn't listen to us before the

government shutdown, they should listen to us about this default. now, here's the point. they are now doing these narrow bills. it's kind of a government by press release. and it reminds me of a woman who is drowning and someone comes to save her, but he only takes her halfway to the shore. and she drowns anyway. you know, no political party, joy, has the right to say, you know, this child lives, this child doesn't live. this community suffers from the shutdown, but this community will be saved. we need to open up the government of the greatest country on earth, and we need to do it yesterday. now, the good news is, john boehner could bring the bill to the floor and we believe it would pass. it would open up this government, and we would you be able to be humiliated and embarrassed and we wouldn't be hurting our people. by the way, chuck hagel announced today, he's fixing this problem in a creative way. but that aside, if you look at

what's happening, i've got situations in my state that are life-threatening situations right now as we speak. >> and, you know, senator, you talked about, you know, the -- the sort of creative lengths that your colleagues -- that the pentagon is really having to go to to work on this. one is you have a private charity that's kicking in. that's going to help to provide some of these benefits until this is resolved. and the money can be paid back. i mean, in a perverse way, are republicans being incentivized to continue these kinds of strategies, because they fundamentally don't believe government should be doing these things. they think private charity should. so in a horrible way, the charities they should be helping are almost in a sense giving some republicans -- not all, but some conservatives, what they want. >> i don't really think so, because obviously this is -- you know, we pray to god we don't have a lot of these to pay, because it's a death gratuity, so we don't want a lot of these. but let me just say, these charitable organizations are

wonderful. but when we're looking at what the government does, they're going to be reimbursed. but, no, here's what i think. very clearly. all this is dependent upon how the american people react. and right now, they are very upset. and i want to talk to you about some bit of good news that's happening in my state. i can report to you that there were now over 1 million distinct visitors to coveredcalifornia.com, which is our affordable care act address, web address. and we are signing up tens of thousands of people who never had health care before, and what they're telling me, through letters and phone calls, and i made a visit to one of the centers, is just that they're so excited for the first time to have affordable health care. and is this the reason why the republican party would shut down the government and cause all this pain, all this chaos? make us a laughing stock. you know, when we have the

president of the united states have to cancel a trip to the asian part of the world, to talk about the wonderful country that we have and the wonderful economic opportunities that are here for foreigners and investment, and he has to cancel, and who steps up to the plate to kind of make jokes about us, but china? this is, in many ways, anti patriotic. i just -- i just don't get it. but i will say, what's interesting is, they now seem to not be talking about -- >> correct. >> obama care. affordable care act. now they're talking about cutting social security. >> right. >> medicare, medicaid. what is their story? if they're not focused on obama care, open up the government. >> absolutely. >> let's get back to work. >> absolutely. important points. thank you so much, barbara boxer. >> thanks. and coming up, we'll meet the young entrepreneurs whose bright idea won innovation challenge. stay with us.

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the winner of this year's innovation challenge is -- >> one of the highlights of this year's education nation was the innovation challenge, a week-long competition where teams compete in a series of challenges aimed at expanding opportunities for students. and the winners of this year's challenge were zack gallant and jeremy keeshan of the team code hs, a company designed to teach beginners the basicses of computer science and programming in a way that has anyone the ability to learn it. and i'm pleased to be joint by both, as well as david saltzman, executive director of the robin

hood foundation, one of the judges. thank you for being here. and thanks for your dog. >> yeah. we're very excited to bring carl, the dog along with us, who has traveled around the country. >> you have now explained -- i was going to ask carol's name. tell us what the dog has to do -- >> the idea, it's really important for us to make teaching -- beginning computer science accessible. and so the way we do that is by starting with carol, the dog. so the idea is giving commands to a computer is kind of like giving commands to a dog so you start off step by step and it builds up from there. >> gotcha. except for the computer won't pee on your floor. and go over to you, zack. you guys won $75,000 as part of this competition. what are you going to use that for to build your business, build this company? >> right. well, it's a lot of money, and it's definitely really helpful. right now a lot of our focus is working with schools, providing resources for the teachers we're using that are using code hs and getting a couple more people on the team to help us grow this and spread it to even more schools across the country. >> really quickly, tell me your

ages. because their minds are going to be blown. >> i'm 24. >> 23. >> okay. so -- >> 21. >> and 21. so in 21-year-old, youngest on the panel, what was it about these guys and their idea, besides their adorable dog that struck you? >> they're brilliant, and they're going to teach tons of kids, especially poor kids, how to code so they can get great jobs. they're going to be 1 million jobs available for people who know how to code. that's tomorrow's blue collar work force of the united states. >> yeah, that's very important. well, we thank you so much for being here. david and jeremy and zack and what's the dog's name, carol? carol the dog. thank you for being here and congratulations. we'll be right back to clear the air for all those debt default truthers.

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time now to clear the air. over the last three years, we've been warned by conservatives the affordable care act must be repealed. in the words of michele bachmann, before it literally kills children and seniors. we've heard that it will turn america into a bankrupt marxist hell scape that they ensured will be robbed of their doctors, premiums will sky rocket and grandparents euthanized. but a funny thing happened. those same republicans who oversold the horrors of letting working class americans buy subsidized health insurance decided they don't believe their preferred tactics for stopping health care reform oh, shutting down the gokt, and potentially breaching the debt ceiling, are at all dangerous. apparently, not only do today's true conservatives not believe in evolution or polls or climate

change or hawaiian birth certificates. they also disbelieve economists, who along with the people republicans used to listen to on wall street unanimously warn that breaching the debt ceiling would be catastrophic for our economy and world markets. words like cataclysmic and global economic meltdown have entered the conversation. but not so, say the debt ceiling truthers. there is no default, said south carolina republican, we should just pass a bill in the house, funding things like we like, like the military. told the washington post, hitting the debt ceiling would bring stability to world markets because the world would see how frugal we are. and fellow congressmen are, hey, there's always more money coming into the treasury, so why not just use that. over in the senate, tom coburn vowed he would dispel the rumor that if we don't raise the debt ceiling, wee default on our debt. we won't. that clears that up. thanks, doc. senator rand paul sees no reason

to raise the debt ceiling in the first place, saying democrats are just scaring people, since all we have to do is promise international bond holders that we'll always pay and voila, problem solved. which would be amusing if these were isolated cases. the "new york times" today reports that a growing number of republicans in both houses of congress think this way. the boss of the republican party himself, rush limbaugh, has been trying, since 2010, to get republicans to quit being afraid of the debt ceiling. and that message is working. and not just on ted cruz's hostage crisis congress. according to a new pew poll, a majority of self identified republicans and 64% of tea party supporters believe that we can breach the debt ceiling without dire consequences. but like the fact that the earth is not 6,000 years old, and it is being subjects injected to climate change and barack obama was born in america, the facts about the at the time limit are

not debatable. as slate's matthew iglesias explains it, normally the treasury department cuts the checks congress has told it to cut. collects the taxes congress has told it to collect. and borrows to cover the difference. but the law only allows the treasury to borrow a certain amount. iglesias continues. when we hit the debt ceiling on october 17, treasury will lack the legal authority to borrow anymore money to close the gap between spending and tax revenue. and this. from the social security administration yesterday. unlike a federal shutdown, which has no impact on the payment of social security benefits, failure to raise the debt ceiling puts social security benefits at risk. it's a catastrophic risk. we're seriously flirting with, because of one political party that's become completely unhooked from reality. thanks so much for watching. be sure to follow us on twitter at bashir live, and coming up next, it's "the ed show" with ed

schultz. see you tomorrow. ♪ good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. we're not shut down and we don't default. let's get to work. >> i have one thing to say. you better work. ♪ >> i think we would be better off if you were elected. a lot better off. >> you're fired. >> my concern was the president in his first term pushed through things on a partisan basis. ♪ work >> i was a severely conservative republican governor. >> that's who the republicanses are! >> is there any party that wants to say i told you so? >> look, i'm with the republicans. >> their agenda to concentrate the wealth to empower the corporations. >> corporations are people, my friend. >> to depress the wages, to favor the rich, i